Episode #
Dark Social, a B2B Marketing Stack That Works, and Agency Secrets With Chris Walker
July 08, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of Marketing School! Today on the show we get together with Chris Walker, CEO of Refine Labs, a company that helps B2B businesses create demand by leveraging top methods that buyers are using, especially through social communities and word of mouth. While many people are under the impression that Refine Labs functions as an agency, their work over the past two years has primarily been focused on researching key questions on how one can use any service business, like an agency, to collect major customer insights. They’ve done detailed research into the type of technology customers are using, the top problems they’re struggling with, as well as how to solve these problems. Tuning in you’ll hear Chris break down their new product, The Vault, which Refine Lab will be launching during Q2 of 2022, the distinction between capturing demand versus creating it, and how to create demand during an economic slowdown. We also discuss the concept of dark social, how to create a B2B marketing stack that works, and how Refine Labs are making marketing more scientific. Make sure you tune in for this eye-opening episode from an expert who is at the bleeding edge of market research!


  • [00:20] Today’s topic: Dark Social, a B2B Marketing Stack That Works, and Agency Secrets With Chris Walker.
  • [00:21] Introducing Chris Walker, CEO of Refine Labs.
  • [01:02] An overview of Refine Labs and the new product they’re launching called The Vault.
  • [02:49] The concept of Dark Social and what it means for businesses.
  • [04:40] Multi-touch attribution and why it’s not as innovative and robust as some businesses think.
  • [05:33] Understanding the distinction between creating demand and capturing demand.
  • [07:35] How to create demand during an economic slowdown.
  • [09:50] Chris’s approach to creating content. 
  • [13:13] How to use virtual live events in a simplified marketing stack.
  • [15:37] The value of consistency when creating content and writing your own copy.
  • [17:58] Why filming live content has been so effective for Chris.
  • [18:36] Why Chris recommends narrowing your focus as a marketer. 
  • [20:19] How Chris’s content team is structured.
  • [22:31] Why Chris describes Refine Labs as an experimentation lab, rather than an agency.
  • [26:02] Why agencies are so effective as a launchpad business.
  • [27:43] Examples of the excellent companies that have financed Refine Labs. 
  • [29:38] Chris answers our rapid-fire questions.
  • [31:34] Learn where you can find Chris online.
  • [31:58] That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast!
  • [31:58] Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more!

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